Swede load work-up

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pepperbelly	Swede load work-up	Lead	[-]
Posts: 3994 (02/17/09 7:52 PM) MODERATOR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None I still haven't found any RL22 locally but may have a line on some. Until then I am going with what I do have. This won't be a clasical load work-up yet since I have 2 Swedes- one M96 and an M38 and I need to see if the same load works in both. I have 3 powder choices- H4895, H4350 and Varget. I have the latest Speer book. I bought it since they seperate the older military surplus rifle data from the modern rifle data. I will be adding a Sierra book when Cabela's gets one in stock. I am using a Sierra MatchKing HPBT bullet, Winchester brass and CCI LR primers. The Speer book didn't show a load for H4895, so I went with Varget and H4350. The loads they show have only a 2gr difference from starting to max. I split the difference with both. Varget is 32gr and H4350 is 35gr. Bullets seated to the Speer recommended OAL of 3.00" What I want to see with these is if the rifles prefer one powder over another. If so I will work up and down in .2gr increments to find what they like then play with the seating depth. When I get some RL22 I will work on that too. Some of the loads I have found on the net use more of each powder but I am thinking they are for modern rifles. How does this plan sound? Jim NRA Life Member Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. --- Thomas Jefferson.
Thor96		#1	[-]
Posts: 6321 (02/17/09 10:01 PM) MODERATOR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	How does this plan sound? Don't ask. In all of Cowtown, you can't find any RL22? You said you are using Sierra MatchKing HPBT bullet, but didn't say what grain bullet. You have a case which will hold 48-50 grains of powder. You are choosing loads that will give you 65% capacity. The Swede really likes loads which run 90% to 100% capacity. The 4895 and Varget are just too fast burning for the Swede. Go for a slower burning powder. In the absence of RL22, look for IMR 4831, IMR 4350, H414 or even RL19 or W760. I would even consider IMR 7828, and in fact I bought a can of it to test on my Swedes. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7 Last Edited By: Thor96 02/17/09 10:06 PM. Edited 1 times.
pepperbelly		#2	[-]
Posts: 3996 (02/17/09 11:37 PM) MODERATOR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I used H4350, not H4895. Like I said- these powders are what I have on hand. I can't believe I can't find RL22 either, but everyone is sold out. Cabela's has some ordered but don't know when it will come in. It could be on tonight's truck or next week. There is a range near me that sells powder. I haven't checked with them yet, but I will tomorrow. From looking at the load data it seems to me that H4895 is a slow burning powder. I bought it to use to load 30-06 for my Garand. I am using 142gr bullets. I also have a box of 140gr. The data looks to be the same. I have no idea why they make bullets that are only 2gr different in weight. Jim NRA Life Member Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. --- Thomas Jefferson.
Thor96		#3	[-]
Posts: 6323 (02/18/09 7:25 AM) MODERATOR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Jim, first of all, you will treat the Garand different than a bolt action. It generally does use faster powders to produce the quickness of gas to drive the auto action. But in the final, no H4895 is a relatively fast powder for use in bolt actions. Also, large fat cartridges are different than long slender ones. Trust me on this that the Swede likes slower powders. Here's a burn rate chart by Hodgedon and copied to the guy's website. There are several on the internet provided by various powder companies and SAAMI. http://www.reloadammo.com/burnrate.htm Generally, if my local store doesn't have what I want in stock, he orders it for me. He just ordered some IMR 4895 for my son in law last week, for his Rem222. Powders are delivered by a hazmat hotshot truck/van which runs a regular route, so a call in order will be on the next scheduled route day. I'm sure in Cowtown, the hotshot truck runs the route daily. Even in our backwoods town, I seldom have to wait over 3 days. Did you note that my son in law is using 4895 in his 222? That's a pretty small cartridge. So consider how it would work with the Swede. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7 Last Edited By: Thor96 02/18/09 7:32 AM. Edited 2 times.
velvetnsteel		#4	[-]
Posts: 2347 (02/18/09 12:20 PM) MODERATOR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	My Swedes like RL-19.................................. Long live the Swedish Mauser!!
pepperbelly		#5	[-]
Posts: 3998 (02/18/09 6:35 PM) MODERATOR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I may scrounge up some RL22 and some RL19. Every source I can find for load data for the Swede mentions using RL22- very often. I will find some, and buy either 2 or 4 pounds instead of one. If nothing else using the powders I have, even if they don't give much accuracy, will be a good training tool. This is my first rifle load. Jim NRA Life Member Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. --- Thomas Jefferson.
Jeff7mm		#6	[-]
Posts: 3110 (02/20/09 2:39 PM) MODERATOR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have had good luck accuracy wise with H4350 Diapers and politicians need frequent changing, and for the same reason
pepperbelly		#7	[-]
Posts: 4007 (02/21/09 10:01 PM) MODERATOR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Jeff, can you email or IM the load you worked up? How close is the one I tried? Jim NRA Life Member Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. --- Thomas Jefferson.
Jeff7mm		#8	[-]
Posts: 3111 (02/22/09 7:00 PM) MODERATOR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The load is 46.0 gr of H4350 under a 140 grain Sierra. This is a MAX load in some reloading books and OVER MAX in others. It also works with the PRIVI bullets that used to be be cheap from GRAFS. There were no pressure signs in 4 different Swedes. I have since switched to H380 in order to accomodate my Norwiegen Krags. The above load was too hot for them and they liked the H380. The Swedes dont care ,they shoot everything fed into them. You might also try some 120 gr bullets. I bought a bunch of 120 grain Remingtons in bulk because they were cheap, and at the time I was burning up 200 rounds a month in 6.5X55. The twist rate in the Swedes designed for a 156 grain bullet should not shoot a 120 gr well but they sure do ! The Krags were not as pleased and my 6.5X53R Dutch hates them. I have found the Speer 140 gr A-MAX bullet to be very accurate in all rifles as well as the Sierra. You will need to reduce the load slightly for them as they have a lot more bearing surface than the Sierra. The darn Dutch wont shoot anything but a Sierra. Diapers and politicians need frequent changing, and for the same reason
pepperbelly		#9	[-]
Posts: 4011 (02/22/09 8:53 PM) MODERATOR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	my new Speer book shows the max load for a military 6.5x55 to be 36gr. Your load looks to be what they are calling for in a modern rifle. Is it safe in an M96? Jim NRA Life Member Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. --- Thomas Jefferson.
Thor96		#10	[-]
Posts: 6383 (02/23/09 6:34 AM) MODERATOR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	pepperbelly wrote: my new Speer book shows the max load for a military 6.5x55 to be 36gr. Your load looks to be what they are calling for in a modern rifle. Is it safe in an M96? Jim Assuming you are talking about the H4350. It's close to IMR 4350 and I would consider it 2 grains over the line. Jim, I know absolutely nothing about pistol loading, which is your expertise. I do know the Swede and IMO you are better off staying away from the hot loads. You only have one face and two eyes. Since that head contains the brain, without the control center, there is no life. So you be the judge about hot loads. I know you will hear about Swedish tests with 30.06 barrels that exceed the limit. I take those reports with tongue in cheek. I'll stick with the milder loads. Besides, if you're going to wax Paul, you don't need velocity, you need accuracy. You can get that with milder loads. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7
lonniemike		#11	[-]
Posts: 134 (02/23/09 9:13 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	If Speer has 36grns as max using H4350 and 140grn bullets, I would think that this may be an anemic load. But this is why we have start loads and work up carfully. ?Max, over max, assume? 46, 36? H4350, IMR4350? Is Norma's 140 factory loads(at2850fps) too much pressure for the Swedes even though they use the Swede 96 actions in their testing platforms? My old #26 Hodgdon,s manual shows 45grns of H4350 as max. I believe the newest Hodgdon's has 44 grns as max now, which would agree with Thor's idea of being 2 grns over somebody's book max.The Swede 139grn mil ammo moves close to 2600fps. Some years ago when I worked up H4350 at 44grns I got speeds of approx 2770fps, at 45 grns approx 2820fps, and at 46grns approx 2880fps. Was all this too fast? The Hodgdon book said my speeds should have been approx 2700fps at 45grns. If I can get 5 reloads with my prvi brass at the 46 grn level is this a bad load? All this is with the 29" barrelled Swede. Thor you had/have a Twede with (IIRC) a 22" barrel (or not) and a cold weather /winter load that caused you some concern when you shot it in warmer weather(blown primer, pierced primer,other). Would you care to share the details like powder and weight used, bullet type and weight, velocities achieved in winter or summer climate, and barrel length(22" or). A chronograph can be a good thing. best wishes all
Thor96		#12	[-]
Posts: 6395 (02/24/09 7:13 AM) MODERATOR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Lonnie, I was using 46 grains of RL22 behind Sierra 160 semi point. BTW, this load will produce cloverleafs in one rifle and inside a dime on another rifle. Dadblast it, Sierra dropped production of the 160. Deadly accurate. Loads were developed in cool part of Spring. My day of demise was mid August. I pierced a couple of primers and one primer fell out when I opened the chamber. Pocket hole was so wallowed, it would not take a new primer. I had three rifles with me that day, so I switched rifles. One a M94, 17" barrel, and a 96 with 29" barrel. Still piercing the primer. Third rifle, same problem. That's enough for me. I've heard of guys keeping their loads on ice during the summer. But that just doesn't appeal to me. I think working up lighter loads is the answer. I've lost my places to shoot, dropped out the club because of distance to the range and soured politics in the club. There was a pipeline right of way where everybody used, but DOT blocked off the logging road entrance as highway is under construction, converting 2 lane to 4 lane and will likely keep it blocked as the highway will be limited access. So right now, I don't have a decent place to shoot. Most private lands have cattle on it, and federal forestry land frowns on target shooters. I have a lead on a place that would be perfect, no cattle, shooting into sand dunes created by mine tailings. I just need to go see the guy for permission. He is a friend and we worshiped together for a while. I need to get back in touch with him. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7
Jeff7mm		#13	[-]
Posts: 3113 (02/24/09 8:08 PM) MODERATOR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	It wasnt too hot for my rifles and the pressure listed was in the 45,000 psi according to the manual. I dont load an M96 over this level. That doesnt mean the published data was correct. I have since switched to H380 powder to simplfy loading with the Krags which are much weaker actions. My standard practice is to check the maximum load listed from several sources and to err on the side of being conservative. A paper target doesnt know the difference and if im hunting and figure I need more power I can always choose another rifle. The 36 gr load sounds very low to me and I doubt that the case will even seal the chamber. This is a very slow burning powder. My notes indicate that 42 grains left the case necks black and some streaks of powder fouling on the case walls indicating not enough pressure to expand the brass to the chamber walls. I just checked the online Hodgdon site and they show a starting load of 39.5 grains at a pressure of only 38,600 The rifle was designed for a working pressure around 44,000 - 45,000 I would not load one to the "modern" pressure listed for Ruger M77 etc. Most of the Reloader powder data I have seen seems to be for "modern rifles" and I dont trust it in my rifles. Diapers and politicians need frequent changing, and for the same reason Last Edited By: Jeff7mm 02/24/09 8:18 PM. Edited 1 times.
Thor96		#14	[-]
Posts: 6400 (02/24/09 9:38 PM) MODERATOR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Jeff, I like your philosophy to always err on the side of conservative. I haven't always done that and that's what cause blown primers. But the real issue is, that was a fantastic load. I'm sure though, that as the synewave does swing, there is a corresponding sweet spot at a lower dose. Alliant has changed. Their recipes did show my loads as max for Swedes, not modern chambers. The pet loads in 160 and 140 were 45,000 cup. But they have changed now and their recommended max load is 2 grains lower across the board in every bullet and powder. What gives? I struggle on powder choice. Alliant has served me well, but I was leaning toward going back to IMR. Then I get to thinking about the great loads I have developed with RL22, not only in the Swedes but also 6mm. IMR is single base and RL is double base. I've heard some say that the double base will give you more power for less pressure. Doesn't make sense to me, seems pressure should be directly tied to energy, although one may spike pressure and the other have a gentler curve and not a sharp pressure spike. Now concerning needing more energy for a hunting load, I doubt that a person really needs to choose a bigger rifle, that is unless he's going for elk or elephant. In reality, I've dropped more deer with the 6mm than with the Swedes, so I know that even a downloaded Swede will kill. Trajectory may not be quite as flat but not that much loss even at that. You can download a Swede and not lose over an inch in diameter of the kill zone at 200 yards, provided you are sighted in correctly. I can sight in at 200 and stay in a 7" circle from close range to 200 yards. Seldom do we hunt further than that, unless you are hunting antelope in Wyoming are across a canyon in Colorado. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7
velvetnsteel		#15	[-]
Posts: 2370 (02/26/09 12:57 PM) MODERATOR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I can attest that the Swede will kill even with a reduced load. I started my wife out on the very minimum load of RL-19 with a 120 grain Nosler BT. The recoil was very moderate and she dropped 4 or 5 whitetails before I moved her up to the load I was using. Long live the Swedish Mauser!!
recon14.parallaxscurioa...		#16	[-]
Posts: 6 (02/28/09 10:38 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I tried some Sierras with H380 and it looked like I was shooting a shotgun at the target. I am loading up some I-4831 at 44gr with the Sierra 142 SPBT and hope to get some better accuracy. Several have told me their M96's loved the 4831 so I figured I'd give it a try. Anyone else use this powder and what results did you have? Bob
Thor96		#17	[-]
Posts: 6437 (03/01/09 6:02 AM) MODERATOR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	recon14 wrote: I tried some Sierras with H380 and it looked like I was shooting a shotgun at the target. I am loading up some I-4831 at 44gr with the Sierra 142 SPBT and hope to get some better accuracy. Several have told me their M96's loved the 4831 so I figured I'd give it a try. Anyone else use this powder and what results did you have? Bob It's what I started with in the Swede and held a tight group, .75", but a bit hot at what I had loaded. Somewhere along the way, I switched to RL22 and along with bedding the action in a Monte Carlo, dropped the group to .5". Another rifle dropped to .23" with RL22. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7
velvetnsteel		#18	[-]
Posts: 2390 (03/01/09 1:27 PM) MODERATOR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The Swedes love the slow powders. I used IMR-4831 until somebody said try RL-19. Thor keeps saying RL-22 is better, but the RL-19 will shoot better than I can, and I already got my loads worked out.................!!! Long live the Swedish Mauser!!
Thor96		#19	[-]
Posts: 6441 (03/01/09 4:43 PM) MODERATOR Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Velvet, you know what I always say... if it works for you, do it. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7
recon14.parallaxscurioa...		#20	[-]
Posts: 7 (03/01/09 8:58 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	A friend gave me some older Hornady 129 RN to use. I can't find a starting load for these anywhere. If anyone has one I can start with, please let me know. thanks

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